One word... Ubuntu.

I recently had to switch from PC to Mac, and then back to PC. I had been doing Flash/Photoshop/Video stuff on a PC (IBM Thinkpad) for like 7 years when I switched jobs, and they were all mac. I hadn't been on a Mac for that whole time and thought It'd be great to get back to it. Ugh! It was a nightmare and after 6 months I got them to get me a souped up PC laptop (Dell Inspiron - 17inch widescreen - mega ram, etc...)instead of the MacBook Pro they were going to get.
Working in Flash (don't know about the development you do) was sluggish on the Mac at best. Plus, there were no good freeware coding apps (i.e.- SEPY) for the Mac. The keyboard shortcuts drove me nuts, I couldn't find files, the web seemed to crawl in comparison, no winamp or other goodies I'd been using for years...
I really thought I'd love to get back to the Mac, and I almost bought myself a MBP. Thanks god I got some hands on Mac time before buying a machine...I think I would have went nuts... But that's just my opinion...

$2799 seems steep. I got my 15" Santa Rosa for $1900, albeit with a small govt discount. Buying 2 makes the pain much greater.

Having said that I think theres a general trend right now that cheaper is always good. The WalMartification of society if you will. The MBP is a wonderful piece of work, the screen is beautiful, OSX is great (once you get used to it and there is some pain) and spending $$ on something important in your life is a wise move.

I'd be interested in knowing where $2799 came from. When I go to the site, 'standard' MBP is $1999. A refurbished (still comes with warranty) was being sold for $1499. I bought a refurbished one online last year and haven't had a single problem.

If you like Windows, use Windows. It's not about being cool, it's about getting the job done and doing what you want on your computer. When I used to use Windows everything felt - I mean everything felt like a hack job and didn't work they way I wanted. Configuring networks, wireless, etc was always a black art. One that I was good at, but soaked up a lot of my time.

I switched 3 years ago and have been blown away by the ease of use and quality of the software. I'm not saying Apple is god and software never crashes, but for me - and this is me - it works the way I want with a lot less fuss.

So an extra couple hundred bucks has been worth it for me 10 times over.

@Paul - http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A... the one on the right $2799 (and that's before I even try to customize it)

I am not one to buy refurbished electronic equipment, I have been burned by that in the past.

@TJ - with all the discussions I have had recently, I am being pushed closer to Ubuntu. Its not the hardware I have an issue with, it the OS.

The other thing to consider is just a plain old MacBook--if you don't need the Pro (which unless you want a bigger screen than is on the MacBook, you really don't need the Pro), you can get a heckuva machine for quite a bit less. I have both a MacBook and a MacBook Pro. The one I always take with me when I'm traveling is the MacBook, and I really don't miss much from the Pro.

To me it's worth the extra money beacause A) I hate Windows (hey--at least I admit my bias!), and B) because I have WAAAAAYY less headaches with the Mac than I ever did with Windows. Vista will only add to your headaches IMO. Since my time is valuable, the extra money is justified very quickly.

Let the "mac fanboy" flames begin! :-)

Yea Scott I feel your pain with the price. Mac are cool and all but it wasn't a cost I could justify especially with the budget for our business.

I bought a new HP laptop in December last year for about $1900 (including a nice new bag and bluetooth mouse) and a similar MacBook Pro with the same goodies was over $1200 more.

What bothers me is what I've read at iSupply (an independent company that evaluates the costs of hardware in products and estimates the approximate profit). It seems that Apple's profit is 2-4 times the profit of similar hardware Windows machines.

I did the same thing a while back. I was looking for a new, essentially top of the line laptop - and what I could get hardware wise in a pc far outstripped what I could get in a mac for the same cost.

(I'm running a Dell XPS atm, and it's great)

My setup is the Dell, with Ubuntu for my primary OS, Vista on dual boot for games (it's a gaming laptop, so may as well take advantage), and I run an XP VM for the things I can't live without from windows.

I'm very happy :D

About the only roadblock I've had with it is:
a) No AIR support (yet)
b) no way to share you desktop on Linux on Connect presos (this one really sucks! and I hope adobe fixes it)

John W actually brings up the most compelling point, and one I had not thought of before. replacement.

OK, for all you Mac lovers, does this sound about right? New one every 4 or so?

@Mark Mandel - I have thought about Ubuntu for my laptop, but for my wife's machine I want something a lot simpler. Though to be honest linux would be thid if I reanked the 3 types of operating systems.

also my flash ide is faster than sh*t as are all my programs, I dunno what that others person issue is but mine are flying and this MBP isnt one of the new chips either.

Yes, every 4 years sounds about right. This laptop I've had for about 3 or 4 years. The previous laptop I had in possession for about 3 years or so (I still own it) and was planning to squeeze another year or so before getting a new one but the case surrounding the monitor got cracked open (it was no fault of mine - just the daily wear and tear and the fact that this previous laptop was an early model) and so I had to get this laptop "right away". I still have the previous laptop - don't want to dump it in the landfill and it is still operable. The other models I had before were desktops and on the average I had these for 3 years before getting a newer model. Say what you will about the cost, but Apple computers do tend to last for quite a long time. There are bloopers here and there, especially when it's the first model of a particular line. But still I can depend on Apple computers.

justin, it may not be worth it to you but to al ot of people it is.

I bought vista and its a steaming pile of ****.
If you are happy with that then great, myself and others are not.

I like when windows users do this lol
"P.S. Note to the Windows haters: If you need to reboot Windows even once a week, you're doing something wrong... Vista is amazingly stable in my experience (across 6+ systems), even with older hardware ;) If you have problems, check for driver updates and remove software that you aren't using (and don't install crap you don't need!)."

Well if u do this, that, this, and that and this.. oh and that and if you dont do this or that or anything close to this or to that... then it will be fine....
Personally, I don't want an os like that.

You and dave watts must buy magic copies of it or something, the rest of the world didnt get those copies
http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_6376000


With a mac you get all the good new stuff to play with in a great environments. With windows you get a poor attempt at copying those things in os x 3-5 years later on a less stable platform.

You can write off your purchase anyways (in most cases).
The puter I bought before my MBP was a dell 8250 POC and without a monitor and 256 ram and it was $2800. But then again I dont mind paying for what I like.

@dave: Whoa, easy there dude :P Those were 2 or 3 simple suggestions that apply to all operating systems (even Ubuntu and OS X)... No need for the "omg I hate M$" rants.

Basically, I think you should go with whichever notebook/OS combo you like best that fits within your budget. If we're talking CF development here, you can pretty much use any OS you want and there won't be many downsides. If you want to do other things, then one particular activity might sway you towards a particular OS... For Windows it's gaming and hardware/software compatibility, for OS X it's fitting-in when you're at Starbucks :P (LOL, come on, it's true...)

@Justin

so you can come in and try and make fun of macs but cant take it when the tables turned? Scott is asking for info on why NOT why not... You say "if you are asking then you shouldnt switch".... well obviously he's asking for a reason which usually means the person is looking for something better.

btw~ the starbucks comment is pure lameness, the reason why you see so many macs at starbucks is because they "just work" once you see a few windows users at public terminals trying to get their networks to use public wifi right you might understand.

Scott, as a developer my time is better servered working on code, not waiting around for something to happen or cleaning out the registry or scanning for viruses etc...
It's actually amazing how a bunch of lil things that run faster make you WAY more productive.

For example, when i was on a pc I could be in dw and when I needed some graphics I would open ps up and wait ........ then do image then close and go back, i couldnt really keep ps or many programs open at once even with 2gbs of ram, it just brings the machine to its knees.
On my mac i open everything i need, usually I have eclipse, navicat, cssedit, mail, aol, yahoo, skype, cfm server, mysql server, safari, ff, opera, wyzo, flock, shiira, parallels with xp running for ie testing, yummy ftp, ps cs3, itunes all open and there is no lag or slow down whatsoever, try that on a pc, it will take a big shit, right then, right there, bsod anyone. So obviously I can quick switch between apps and create a very fast workflow. Not to mention mac apps just work better & smoother & IF something crashed it most likely wont crash everything and you just force quit the app then open it again and keep going. Matter of fact if you ever take your mac into an apple store to the genious bar for help the first thing they willo do is open up and run all of you installed programs at once to see if one is the problem. The funny thing is you can have all your programs open and running and the mac will just purr along, again lets see a pc do that.

one of my bad habits from pc was wanting to clean it all the time to keep it running good and/or rebooting all the time to get it running ok every few hours. A mac will clean itself by default on wed & sunday nights at 2am. And since there is no registry in os x you dont have all those registry issues. One HUGE advantage I have LOVED on a mac is backing up and restoring. I lost more data in frickin pc crashes. For one if your mac crashes beyond repair you can do a "install & archive", what that does is reinstall the os with your current settings intact & the take your old install and nicely plop in on the desktop in its own folder so you can go into it and retrieve all your data safely, again, lets see a pc do that, i wont wait around for someone to do that cause it wont happen. Also, every night when i got to bed I drag my home folder onto a external drive (drag & drop) and that backs up my entire install. So if I wake up too disaster I could reinstall the os and just drag and drop my home folder from my backup external drive right onto my new home folder and everything will be EXACTLY as it was. Again a pc cant do that because of the registery hooks. Of course with the release of leapord in october we will have time machine to do all that automatically.


Whats your wife use her computer for?
All my clients I am getting switched over to macs and you cant wipe the sh*teating grins off of their faces, for most users everything is included. For example my Mom was the virus queen, she opens up EVERYTHING and I would have to buy plane tickets out there every 2 months or so to go re-install xp, finally I got her a mac mini, she does photos, IM'n, email, surfing & pogo mostly and after spending half a day showing her how to use it there hasnt been any problems, none, zero, ziltch, even with 14 kids (1-10) hammering on it all day. And best of all she now feels so much safer with her photos. She lost over 5000 photos on a pc crash and could recover, and those were priceless, now that shes been on a mac for over a year that fear is gone finally:)

ppl can say whatever they want about how great Vista is, but it isn't, I threw my copy away after 2 weeks of pure frusteration even just using it to test pc browsers. Im not bashing a pc but next to a mac they are just junk.

think of it this way:
pc= honda
mac= lexus

yes they both get you around but a lexus just does it smoother, better and you just enjoy it more.

Like Lola said & I said before, there is such a difference to me personally and her that we dont mind paying the price. And there is a lot to be said for that, when peole dont mind paying a premium for a product then it usually is good. Im not a cheapskate, I would never buy another dell or cheap computer ever again, I know the value of value and i dont mind paying for it, especially a MBP because I will get more done faster and make more money. It's kinda like using coldfusion, you get more done faster which means you can make more $$, well I guess thats circumstantial but I work for myself and I certain make more $$ for more work done. Plus its not like we dont all make good $$ (well xcept 4 will!), a new MBP is like what 2 1/2 days worth of work, its a no brainer.

But then again I see that you can buy vista in a lot of stores bargin bins already, i guess that says a lot as well.

One other thing I need to consider is that I run an Exchange server at home which stores my e-mail, so I would need a mail client capable of doing that. This translates to Office for Mac, so add another $400 on top of the price.

I want to start by saying you need to use whatever you can be the most productive with. If that winds up being Dell/Windows then rock on.

I manage around 400 PCs and just 4 macs. The majority of our PCs are Dell. Other than a bad batch of 30 Dells we received from them in 2000, they have been reliable. We have 24 new dell desktops and 5 dell laptops that we just got in this week. We also just ordered 10 more Dell laptops today.

I'll admit that I was an Apple bigot two years ago and publicly made the statement that I would never own a mac. We hired a guy who owned a mac that heard my comment and he told me to take his laptop and use it one afternoon. I wanted to hate it to prove that I was right but like Mark Drew mentioned, it just felt solid. Apps felt smooth and I was impressed with the responsiveness of the system. It really just felt right. Fast forward one year and I purchased a 15" MBP. One month later, I got a 13" MB for my wife. Both of us have been happy with the macs and I've noticed that even my four year old son has stopped getting his windows laptop out in favor wanting to use our macs.

We can argue all day about which OS is better and what hardware is better. I want to leave you with this thought that may help drive home why looking at the price only doesn't tell the whole story.

Why do you use/recommend ColdFusion when php/ruby/perl is free?

As a friend of mine so eloquently put it in private conversation, it is not I that needs convincing, rather the Chairwoman of the Finance Committee.

@Matt - Yet another compelling argument, and one that, coupled with what others have stated, just might be enough.

Thanx everyone! This is not a purchase I will be making in the very near future. I was merely doing some preliminary research. I may, in the interim, actually give Ubuntu a shot if I can find drivers for some devices that were not supported with the 'LiveCD' which allows you to load Ubuntu from a CD to try it out.

it is hard to put your finger on "exactly why" but like Jeff said, use it for a month and you will just "get why"

a few good articles
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2162397,00.as...

oops well i had others but one article the guy said something that really caught my eye. He said that he was thinking in terms of what will vista or os x give me in terms of speeding up my workflow. And with vista the answe was nothing over xp since vista really isnt anything more than vista with new icons and sounds and actually with all their faux security popups that and such that it actually slows you down from xp. And os x seems to speed you up and every release of OS X gives you more tools to improve your workflow and again windows doesnt.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...

Go to Tiger Direct (or New Egg...they are about the same...I use TD because I live less than a mile from thier Napeville, IL store) I purchased an Acer Aspire 5100 about 6 months ago for $850 with taxes included. While it's not exactly an Alienware Gamers machine, I don;t have any probs and can play the games I play (WOW addict here) as well as using it to deveop my sites. If you want to spend some cash on a high end notebook...go over to sagernotebooks.com and chck out what they have. Even ifit is mor than what you want...they are something do drool over for 1/2 of what you would pa for if you boght it from Alienware.

Eric