I really want to be cool and get a Mac Book Pro (MBP).
I really want to find out what's in the Kool-Aid that Apple sells that makes anyone who owns one of them become a full on zealot.
I really want to find out what the big deal is.
But at what cost?
I am considering replacing my Windows based laptop, and my wife's Windows based desktop with a MBP for me, and an plain ole' Mac Book for her. I say considering because I went to Apple.com today to just get an idea of how much we would need to spend. I say considering because I did not expect the 'sticker-shock' I got when I went to the site.
The standard MBP was $2799.00. After comparing the specs with my current laptop I was astounded to find out, there rally isn't a whole lot more, if anything, the MBP offers that I don;t already have in terms of hardware. The processor in the MBP is a bit faster than what I have, but my current hard drive is 60GB larger. Also, the video card is a bit more beefy than what I have, but all I do is development on my laptop. I don't so a great deal of graphics work, nor do I watch DVDs, so this is kind of a waste for me. Both have 2GB of RAM, WiFI and Bluetooth.
Here is the kicker, I paid over $1000.00 less than the MBP. I am sorry, in my opinion, the differences in the specs don't warrant that $1000 difference.
So, I am asking for help. I am having a hard time convincing myself (much less my wife) that it is worth the extra money to get a Mac. What can I do with a MAC that I cannot do with my Windows machine?
Help convince me its worth the extra grand.
And please don't say I can run OSX and Windows on the same machine, that's not really a selling point to me. I am not going to pay an extra $1000 so I can run Windows.
43 comments
Im running os X on both pcs at home.. full speed . PERFECT
os X without the crappy xpensive mac hardware...
Working in Flash (don't know about the development you do) was sluggish on the Mac at best. Plus, there were no good freeware coding apps (i.e.- SEPY) for the Mac. The keyboard shortcuts drove me nuts, I couldn't find files, the web seemed to crawl in comparison, no winamp or other goodies I'd been using for years...
I really thought I'd love to get back to the Mac, and I almost bought myself a MBP. Thanks god I got some hands on Mac time before buying a machine...I think I would have went nuts... But that's just my opinion...
Having said that I think theres a general trend right now that cheaper is always good. The WalMartification of society if you will. The MBP is a wonderful piece of work, the screen is beautiful, OSX is great (once you get used to it and there is some pain) and spending $$ on something important in your life is a wise move.
It looks like I will get a good PC one with a huge RAM up to 1K and it is enough for what I need.
If you are looking for the prices, I would suggest http://bensbargains.net for the deals.
If you like Windows, use Windows. It's not about being cool, it's about getting the job done and doing what you want on your computer. When I used to use Windows everything felt - I mean everything felt like a hack job and didn't work they way I wanted. Configuring networks, wireless, etc was always a black art. One that I was good at, but soaked up a lot of my time.
I switched 3 years ago and have been blown away by the ease of use and quality of the software. I'm not saying Apple is god and software never crashes, but for me - and this is me - it works the way I want with a lot less fuss.
So an extra couple hundred bucks has been worth it for me 10 times over.
I am not one to buy refurbished electronic equipment, I have been burned by that in the past.
@TJ - with all the discussions I have had recently, I am being pushed closer to Ubuntu. Its not the hardware I have an issue with, it the OS.
One alternative you could try is to hire/lease one for a month. You need someone like an office supply who set up temporary offices. Give it a good whirl and see if you are happy?
I appreciate everyone's input, but I have not really heard anything that has made me say, 'That's it, the Mac is worth the extra money. I am going to get one right now!"
Let the "mac fanboy" flames begin! :-)
Also, don't buy RAM from Apple. It's way (a trend) overpriced. Buy the minimum RAM, got to newEgg, or TigerDirect.
Apple does have a business lease which is nice.
I bought a new HP laptop in December last year for about $1900 (including a nice new bag and bluetooth mouse) and a similar MacBook Pro with the same goodies was over $1200 more.
What bothers me is what I've read at iSupply (an independent company that evaluates the costs of hardware in products and estimates the approximate profit). It seems that Apple's profit is 2-4 times the profit of similar hardware Windows machines.
+1 for he plain ole MacBook. I have the black one and it rocks. I don't play video games or do video editing and didn't need the card slot, so I had no reason to get a Pro. I have a 13" Black MP and it is perfect for commuting. I just plug it into a big ass screen at home and at work and I'm sorted.
Substantially cheaper than my last purchase (a Dell), so it was a no brainer for me. Also, benefit of the Mac is in the little things. What exactly makes a great quarterback better than a decent one (apart from their stats?!). It's the little details that make a big difference . . .
(I'm running a Dell XPS atm, and it's great)
My setup is the Dell, with Ubuntu for my primary OS, Vista on dual boot for games (it's a gaming laptop, so may as well take advantage), and I run an XP VM for the things I can't live without from windows.
I'm very happy :D
About the only roadblock I've had with it is:
a) No AIR support (yet)
b) no way to share you desktop on Linux on Connect presos (this one really sucks! and I hope adobe fixes it)
In work I have a very new Dell laptop.
Could I choose I'd replace the Dell with a macBook without a moments regret. For me the mac and the OSX is so much smoother and faster than the Dell and Windows. The Dell in work I have to restart every day to keep it running. The mac at home is turned on 24/7 and is only restarted when there are security updates etc. Also I discovered recently that the HD on my mac was full - I mean 0b left of available space - even though operating the OS and the apps was smooth and fast - I just could not save the work I was doing in Fireworks (no space - that's how I found out). A windows pc would have chocked totaly in the same situation.
There are more examples, like the ease of network configuration, the extremly smooth handling of multiple simultaniusly logged on users, but too sum it up - it's the overall user experience that has me sold.
Now I've always found the windows versus linux or osx discutions pretty stupid - and I'm not interested in taking part in any mudslinging, or to defend my views. Just thought I'd explain why I would choose a macBook in your situation.
Good luck with whatever choise you make.
OK, for all you Mac lovers, does this sound about right? New one every 4 or so?
@Mark Mandel - I have thought about Ubuntu for my laptop, but for my wife's machine I want something a lot simpler. Though to be honest linux would be thid if I reanked the 3 types of operating systems.
A lot of the issues I hear with people over macs is really over their bad windows habits, once you break those its like a cool wind blowing across your sweaty b*lls.. lol
A mac works the way you image things should work not the way bill wants you to work and that really is a big difference.
I dunno what kinda sugar they got in the cool-aid but I sure as hell aint going back to that crappy well water cool-aid (aka windows).
Stop and think about it... micro$oft tried pretty damn hard to rip os x off as much as they could with Vista, so there is obviously something to it.
Best advise if you arent sure is to buy one and try it or buy a used one or even just a used mac mini. They hold their value so well that if you don't like it you can resell it almost for full price so its not much of a gamble.
I currently use my 3+ year old Dell Inspiron 9100 notebook (P4 3.2ghz, Radeon Mobility 9700 128mb video - it only cost around US$2000 back in the day) for development and I simply spent a few hundred bucks to throw 2GB RAM into it and it runs Vista (with Aero) like a dream... I doubt I will need to upgrade it even in the next 18-24 months! 5 years out of a notebook is amazing value in my books.
P.S. Note to the Windows haters: If you need to reboot Windows even once a week, you're doing something wrong... Vista is amazingly stable in my experience (across 6+ systems), even with older hardware ;) If you have problems, check for driver updates and remove software that you aren't using (and don't install crap you don't need!).
I bought vista and its a steaming pile of ****.
If you are happy with that then great, myself and others are not.
I like when windows users do this lol
"P.S. Note to the Windows haters: If you need to reboot Windows even once a week, you're doing something wrong... Vista is amazingly stable in my experience (across 6+ systems), even with older hardware ;) If you have problems, check for driver updates and remove software that you aren't using (and don't install crap you don't need!)."
Well if u do this, that, this, and that and this.. oh and that and if you dont do this or that or anything close to this or to that... then it will be fine....
Personally, I don't want an os like that.
You and dave watts must buy magic copies of it or something, the rest of the world didnt get those copies
http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_6376000
With a mac you get all the good new stuff to play with in a great environments. With windows you get a poor attempt at copying those things in os x 3-5 years later on a less stable platform.
You can write off your purchase anyways (in most cases).
The puter I bought before my MBP was a dell 8250 POC and without a monitor and 256 ram and it was $2800. But then again I dont mind paying for what I like.
Basically, I think you should go with whichever notebook/OS combo you like best that fits within your budget. If we're talking CF development here, you can pretty much use any OS you want and there won't be many downsides. If you want to do other things, then one particular activity might sway you towards a particular OS... For Windows it's gaming and hardware/software compatibility, for OS X it's fitting-in when you're at Starbucks :P (LOL, come on, it's true...)
Recently I switched BACK from Mac to PC, I can say that Windows Vista is a real piece of garbage. Depending on the PC that you pick, you'll be lucky if they offer XP drivers. Same goes for Ubuntu...verify that the drivers for your system are available.
I've used VMWare on both Windows Vista and OS X (both with 2gb ram) and can say that the OS X version runs much smoother. You can easily install Windows on your Mac and boot to it natively (for full performance) or choose to boot to it via VMWare in OS X (which ran CF7, SQL Server 2k, CFEclipse, an IM client Firefox with a bunch of tabs without a hitch). After a time I ditched the whole dual boot and developed strictly in VMWare instances. If your Windows craps out, simply restore a backup and you are back in business. So if you factor time saved working in this manner, you are going to $ave time and money.
Oh, and if you are into that kind of thing, you can make music, podcasts, movies and author DVDs with software that comes with the OS.
so you can come in and try and make fun of macs but cant take it when the tables turned? Scott is asking for info on why NOT why not... You say "if you are asking then you shouldnt switch".... well obviously he's asking for a reason which usually means the person is looking for something better.
btw~ the starbucks comment is pure lameness, the reason why you see so many macs at starbucks is because they "just work" once you see a few windows users at public terminals trying to get their networks to use public wifi right you might understand.
Scott, as a developer my time is better servered working on code, not waiting around for something to happen or cleaning out the registry or scanning for viruses etc...
It's actually amazing how a bunch of lil things that run faster make you WAY more productive.
For example, when i was on a pc I could be in dw and when I needed some graphics I would open ps up and wait ........ then do image then close and go back, i couldnt really keep ps or many programs open at once even with 2gbs of ram, it just brings the machine to its knees.
On my mac i open everything i need, usually I have eclipse, navicat, cssedit, mail, aol, yahoo, skype, cfm server, mysql server, safari, ff, opera, wyzo, flock, shiira, parallels with xp running for ie testing, yummy ftp, ps cs3, itunes all open and there is no lag or slow down whatsoever, try that on a pc, it will take a big shit, right then, right there, bsod anyone. So obviously I can quick switch between apps and create a very fast workflow. Not to mention mac apps just work better & smoother & IF something crashed it most likely wont crash everything and you just force quit the app then open it again and keep going. Matter of fact if you ever take your mac into an apple store to the genious bar for help the first thing they willo do is open up and run all of you installed programs at once to see if one is the problem. The funny thing is you can have all your programs open and running and the mac will just purr along, again lets see a pc do that.
one of my bad habits from pc was wanting to clean it all the time to keep it running good and/or rebooting all the time to get it running ok every few hours. A mac will clean itself by default on wed & sunday nights at 2am. And since there is no registry in os x you dont have all those registry issues. One HUGE advantage I have LOVED on a mac is backing up and restoring. I lost more data in frickin pc crashes. For one if your mac crashes beyond repair you can do a "install & archive", what that does is reinstall the os with your current settings intact & the take your old install and nicely plop in on the desktop in its own folder so you can go into it and retrieve all your data safely, again, lets see a pc do that, i wont wait around for someone to do that cause it wont happen. Also, every night when i got to bed I drag my home folder onto a external drive (drag & drop) and that backs up my entire install. So if I wake up too disaster I could reinstall the os and just drag and drop my home folder from my backup external drive right onto my new home folder and everything will be EXACTLY as it was. Again a pc cant do that because of the registery hooks. Of course with the release of leapord in october we will have time machine to do all that automatically.
Whats your wife use her computer for?
All my clients I am getting switched over to macs and you cant wipe the sh*teating grins off of their faces, for most users everything is included. For example my Mom was the virus queen, she opens up EVERYTHING and I would have to buy plane tickets out there every 2 months or so to go re-install xp, finally I got her a mac mini, she does photos, IM'n, email, surfing & pogo mostly and after spending half a day showing her how to use it there hasnt been any problems, none, zero, ziltch, even with 14 kids (1-10) hammering on it all day. And best of all she now feels so much safer with her photos. She lost over 5000 photos on a pc crash and could recover, and those were priceless, now that shes been on a mac for over a year that fear is gone finally:)
ppl can say whatever they want about how great Vista is, but it isn't, I threw my copy away after 2 weeks of pure frusteration even just using it to test pc browsers. Im not bashing a pc but next to a mac they are just junk.
think of it this way:
pc= honda
mac= lexus
yes they both get you around but a lexus just does it smoother, better and you just enjoy it more.
Like Lola said & I said before, there is such a difference to me personally and her that we dont mind paying the price. And there is a lot to be said for that, when peole dont mind paying a premium for a product then it usually is good. Im not a cheapskate, I would never buy another dell or cheap computer ever again, I know the value of value and i dont mind paying for it, especially a MBP because I will get more done faster and make more money. It's kinda like using coldfusion, you get more done faster which means you can make more $$, well I guess thats circumstantial but I work for myself and I certain make more $$ for more work done. Plus its not like we dont all make good $$ (well xcept 4 will!), a new MBP is like what 2 1/2 days worth of work, its a no brainer.
But then again I see that you can buy vista in a lot of stores bargin bins already, i guess that says a lot as well.
1) Long product life (I still have a very usable PowerBook, an iBook, a MB and a MBP), All of which will be going for a few more years yet, the iBook might be a bit old, but that is about 4 years old, and was only meant to be for browsing when I got it
2) OS X is a headache free OS. You will be providing the tech support in your home, so how much time do you want to spend (and loosing money) fixing the machine. Earn money, dont spend it on stupid issues.
3) Quality. Sure, you can get something cheap, it will feel cheap, it will last like something cheap. Any OTHER laptop I touch recently just makes me think.. "euuu, thats cheap!"
4) Battery life, just-cant-beat-it. Nop. You cant.
5) It will make you more manly and better in bed.
Entourage is ok. It's no Outlook, which isn't saying much IMHO, but it does an adequate job. couln't you POP exchange? Apple's Mail App (also nothing to write home about) can do POP mail accounts? just thinking/wondering out loud.
I manage around 400 PCs and just 4 macs. The majority of our PCs are Dell. Other than a bad batch of 30 Dells we received from them in 2000, they have been reliable. We have 24 new dell desktops and 5 dell laptops that we just got in this week. We also just ordered 10 more Dell laptops today.
I'll admit that I was an Apple bigot two years ago and publicly made the statement that I would never own a mac. We hired a guy who owned a mac that heard my comment and he told me to take his laptop and use it one afternoon. I wanted to hate it to prove that I was right but like Mark Drew mentioned, it just felt solid. Apps felt smooth and I was impressed with the responsiveness of the system. It really just felt right. Fast forward one year and I purchased a 15" MBP. One month later, I got a 13" MB for my wife. Both of us have been happy with the macs and I've noticed that even my four year old son has stopped getting his windows laptop out in favor wanting to use our macs.
We can argue all day about which OS is better and what hardware is better. I want to leave you with this thought that may help drive home why looking at the price only doesn't tell the whole story.
Why do you use/recommend ColdFusion when php/ruby/perl is free?
And I was being entirely honest when I said I think if Scott is fishing for reasons to switch then it's probably a sign that he should't switch... For some people the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" holds true.
On the other hand, sometimes a change is just refreshing and you might not need any reason more than that :)
Thanx everyone! This is not a purchase I will be making in the very near future. I was merely doing some preliminary research. I may, in the interim, actually give Ubuntu a shot if I can find drivers for some devices that were not supported with the 'LiveCD' which allows you to load Ubuntu from a CD to try it out.
Until you actually use OS X for about a month, you will never know. There isn't one sure fire answer for you other than its the best of all worlds. Unix power with Apple attention to detail.
PS. Get rid of that Exchange server and load up Ubuntu with Postfix and Courier IMAP. You'll be much happier and much richer.
a few good articles
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2162397,00.as...
oops well i had others but one article the guy said something that really caught my eye. He said that he was thinking in terms of what will vista or os x give me in terms of speeding up my workflow. And with vista the answe was nothing over xp since vista really isnt anything more than vista with new icons and sounds and actually with all their faux security popups that and such that it actually slows you down from xp. And os x seems to speed you up and every release of OS X gives you more tools to improve your workflow and again windows doesnt.
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com...
Eric